. and certainly, anything that washington does as we saw with the first debt ceiling negotiations, anything that washington does that adds to the uncertainty certainly doesn't help the economy. so i think most people would like to see these people sort of get their act together before the deadline, hopefully. >> well, in fact, senator roy blunt just blamed uncertainty. let me play that. >> uncertainty is probably even a greater problem than contraction. if we knew what the government spending was going to be with some certainty, that would be better than this constant not knowing. we're on the 60-day clock and then on the 90-day clock. we need to get on a four and five-year clock. and that's why a budget and appropriations bills will make a difference, chuck. >> what are the chances, michael, of those things happening? >> well, you know, i think a long-term solution doesn't look very practical right now. and one reason is that members of congress like mr. blunt, republicans, are -- i think that it's more important not to give more ground on taxes than it is to create certainty. so

up basically in the summer of 2011 and the run-up to the debt ceiling, and in the run-up to the fiscal cliff, excuse me, about a month idago, this idea of $600 billion in new revenue and entitlements. specifically in advance of the fiscal cliff, the white house wanted a change to the benefits formula for social security and basically be a benefit reduction over the long term for social security beneficiaries. is this just another, you know, trip down a dead end road to you or do you think there's movement on a grand bargain in the next month or two? >> i'm glad to be back on the show to qualify "the cycle" skeet shooting tournament. >> you're in. >> check out the stance, howard. >> i want to team up with s.e. of course. >> smart move. >> i called her already. >> okay. this is the -- did you say 47,000th? >> i lost count at 12,000. i'm guessing since then. >> what is whatever you said plus one. there's practically politically speaking no way that the republicans right now are going to go along with anything like that number that you put up on the screen or, frankly, any number ri

going to be about these entitlements. >> first they argue the debt ceiling was their leverage. then they realize politically that was problematic for them. now that we resolved that at least for now although we still have to deal with it down the road, you've got deficit reduction that they perceived to be their leverage through shutting the government down or allowing what both republicans and democrats agree is an unacceptbly large set of spending cuts in the sequester which were designed to incentivize us to sit down. we're not going to be able to deal with this by march 2nd. let's make sure we avoid those cuts. >> absolutely. >> so here's what i think we have to look out for. i was up on the hill testifying this morning, and i'm picking up the following. i think what republicans would like to do is actually cancel the defense part of the sequestration and shift those cuts on to the non-defense side. that must be avoided. look, first of all in my view all these cuts ought to be avoided the way the president was talking about today. but what i just described absolutely must be avo

on the debt ceiling and they need to move the attention on to something else. say they do have leverage elsewhere. so they have chosen sequester and put up a very brave face on it. it's possible they could convince themselves to let it actually happen but the idea that they get some sort of significant political gain from it, these are cuts they hated and they hated in large part because they hurt things they care about. so to permit the sequester to go forward on that kind of rationale is not a political win, not a policy win. everybody is losing. >> the "new york times" op-ed says more than a million jobs are on the line if this deal isn't made. a quote saying the losses will soon spread as contracts to states and cities are cut, education and police grants are cut, and payments to medicare providers are cut, even the aid just approved to victims of hurricane sandy will fall under the sequester's act. americans are about to find out what happens when an entire political party demands deficit reduction at all costs because those costs will be enormous. that being an editorial.

expires. the debt ceiling fight will resurface in the summer. >>> new polls showing the nra's opposition to reforming certain gun laws isn't registering with the american public. according to polling, more than 90% of voters in three states say they support wider background checks for people buying weapons at gun shows. that includes voters who live in households with a gun. when it comes to the question of armed police in schools, more voters in virginia, new jersey, and pennsylvania support the idea than oppose it. the board of education in new it is town, connecticut, is requesting funding for armed police officers in four elementary schools for the next school year. in chicago, meanwhile, mayor rahm emanuel is moving 200 officers from desk duty to the streets amid the city's most violent months in decades. 42 people have been murdered this year including 15-year-old who was shot dead this week while hanging out with friends in a park. >> when any young person in our city is gunned down without reason, their death makes an impression on all of us. and it demands action from all of us.

back up a little bit just like with this recent debt ceiling vote. i think, basically, business is going to have to come forward like with regard to the debt ceiling and say look, you can't do this. you are going to wreck the economy of the united states and wreck the economy of the world. i'm hoping that we won't get there. but, alex, i have to tell you, it would not shock me if we do. >> okay. let's switch gears. on the heels of the senate confirmation hearing for chuck hagel, has the political climate changed with the new members of congress on board? >> well, you know, with regard -- first of all, with regard to chuck hagel, the media basically reported that he got beaten up pretty bad. i didn't see it that way. i thought he held his own. i anticipate that we will have a lot of motion, commotion and emotion but chuck hagel will be confirmed. he'll do a great job. after all, the president should have the persons he wants to carry out his policy. i think that will be the case. with regard to the new congress, we have to have a wait and see situation. the number of tea partiers lo

approach to the fiscal cliff, his approach to the debt ceiling. everyinning tonally is this is -- it's not my way or the highway, but it's much more my way than, hey, let's meet in the middle. it's sort of like i won, deal with this reality, and let's move forward. we'll see. it's actually worked pretty good effect thus far on things like the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling. republicans will try to draw a line somewhere. i'm not sure why yet. >> they thought they could draw it on national security with chuck hagel, and we've seen in the last 48 hours the president picked up the phone and he cauldron widen. he hasn't called too many senators too often, even in his own party. he cauldron widen because they had a real obstacle, and he knew that his cia nominee, his close friend, someone he is really eager to have confirmed john brennan, was in trouble going to that hearing. now not so much trouble. >> not so much trouble. these hearings are always as much about the -- using the moment as a lever to dislodge things that congress wants as they are about the nominee himself. i don't think ther

majority leader, remember his name was cantor, who fought the president on the debt ceiling. he called the obama administration the imperial presidency. he stepped out today to show there are no rough edges in this republican party. let's listen to cantor today. >> we'll advance proposals aimed at producing results in areas like education, health care, innovation, and job growth. our solutions will be based on the conservative principles of self-reliance, faith in the individual, trust in family, and accountability in government. our goal is to ensure that every american has a fair shot to earn success and achieve their dreams. >> what a cover-up. your party ought to be ashamed of itself. you spent months in every state legislative capital trying to keep black people and poor people from voting or young people. now you're out pretending that you care about opportunity in america. it's an absurdity eric cantor -- >> the speech by eric cantor was a very good speech. >> if it wasn't given by him maybe. >> eric cantor is a good guy. he's got a family. he cares about this country. he

especially since they put off the debt ceiling fight they'd be able to take control of this issue. >> let's play what mitch mcconnell said just yesterday slamming the democrats for floating new revenue proposals. >> this is just another opportunity to trot out the democrat focus group approved policy stunt. if this is another fake fight designed by the white house to push us to the brink, then republicans are really not interested in playing along. >> molly, another fake fight. as it was described by mitch mcconnell there. but we know when you look at polling and watched since the end of the year, the polls show it's republicans who come up short where people believe they're presenting the fake fight, at least some of the polling. >> well, it is interesting to hear mcconnell describe it as focus group approved. they believe public opinion on their side and if there is what is viewed as gridlock and dysfunction in washington, republicans are blamed by that. i think the white house concluded, looking back on the last four years, that every time republican sort of faint and clutch th

congress agrees to delay a showdown over the debt ceiling and faces a march 1 deadline for across the board spending cuts, what to make of this darned economy, david? >> am i supposed to answer that? it is confusing. the stock market is up. employers are hiring, very slowly. the government now tells us that hey -- they hired a lot more last year than previously believed. auto seafls are up 14% from last year. housing sales are coming back. on the other hand the economy took a pause at the end of last year? unemployment is very high, 7.9%. among men between 25 and 54 one out of six is not working. so i think when you cut through all this what do you see? well, the stock market is going like this and the economy is going like this. that can't last. i can't explain the stock market except maybe there was a gigantic sigh of relief. the republicans aren't going to force the u.s. freshry due default and the europeans aren't going to blow themselves up economically. you see an economy that's growing -- slowly. growing is better than not growing. the europeans are trying the not growing thing

cliff, the debt ceiling. now the sequester. i mean, we're now talk about perhaps $85 billion in spending cuts in 2013 if they don't get their act together on the sequester. that's pointing exactly in the opposite direction. so the fed is kind of setting the table but not getting the support from the congress on the fiscal side. >> so given the looming debt ceiling limit here, this week on morning joe the "new york times" economist argued why the u.s. should spend now and worry about deficit reduction later. here it is. >> dashing spending when you still have depressed economy is really destructive. it's probably even counterproductive even in purely fiscal terms. we should be sustaining government spending until we have a stronger economic recovery. >> this is not a hard call. as long as we have 4 million people who have been unemployed for more than a year, this is not a time to be worrying about reducing the budget deficit. give me something that looks more like a normal employment situation and i'll become a deficit hawk but not now. >> do you subscribe to that, jared? or is

if you lost track of the debt ceiling and budget battles t came out of the debt limit deal. it was the white house's idea to hold washington's feet to the fire. the cuts were never supposed to happen. the committee that replaced them failed and at the start of the ewe near, the deal triggered even further until march 1st. we are faced with the looming cuts a few weeks away that boiled down to $85 billion that will be slashed by this fall if nothing happens. the focus has been on the cuts and the entire $1.2 trillion will be a 50-50 defense between defense and spending. to put us into perspective is the center for social inclusion. the sequester was designed to be something that would never happen. prot expect would scare washington into coming out with something else. there sounds out of washington, particularly from republicans that they might be okay with nothing happening and sequester being triggered. half is defense and half non-domestic discretionary spending. can you explain to people what would be cut if the sequester goes into effect. >> it's a pleasure to be here. it's an

the spending cuts the democrats and republicans agreed to during the 2011 debt ceiling disaster, and it is $1.7 trillion in cuts. there is not a dime of new revenue there. here is the chart when you add the $737 billion in new revenue agreed to during the fiscal cliff deal. republicans are winning the battle, wouldn't you say, when it comes to balancing? over two-thirds of deficit reduction has come from cuts to domestic programs, and it's not exactly fair. but now the house progressive caucus has come out with what they call the balancing act. it's a common-sense plan to reduce the deficit by closing tax loopholes and cutting wasteful defense spending. here is the chart of the plan. there is $1.7 trillion in new revenue. the $1.7 trillion in spending cuts is still there. this looks like a much fairer chart than the current system, don't you think? and it's estimated to reduce the deficit by $3.3 trillion. remember, we're trying to hit $4 trillion. so we're getting closer. the plan ends tax loopholes for yachts and for jets. it reduces the corporate meal and entertainment deduction t

debt ceiling limits -- last week congress voted to temporarily suspend the limits on the debt ceiling. we will get a look at high- profile nominations. we are glad you joined us. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminating hunger and we have work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> bernie sanders is the longest serving independence in congress in his third term after 16 years in the house. he is also the new chair of the veterans affairs committee. it is always good to have you on this program. thanks for your time. >> great to be with you. >> let me start with where we are now. we are caught between the president's inauguration day speech and his state of the union address. i want to cover both in just a second and so much more, but let me start with the inauguration speech. this is the first time we have got

chair whether it's debt ceiling, sequester. we have got to stop inflicting wounds on this economy. it is political malpractice. >> indeed, it is. jared bernstein and dana milbank, thank you so much. >> thank you. >>> much more ahead, but first a lighter moment with the president as he announces his latest cabinet pick. >> when sally's confirmed, i'm willing to bet that she will be the first secretary of the interior who frequently hikes and once spent a month climbing mountains in antarctica which is not something i'd do. because it seems like it'd be cold. and i was born in hawaii. ♪ [ man ] ring ring... progresso this reduced sodium soup says it may help lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just have to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup. [ babies crying ] surprise -- your house was built on an ancient burial ground. [ ghosts moaning ] surprise -- your car needs a new transmission. [ coyote howls ] h

. >>> say farewell to the old fiscal cliff and debt ceiling and get used to this word. sequester. it hit in march i

hikes on the very wealthy. not everything he wanted, but quite a lot. he won on the debt ceiling question. the they did lift it. and i don't think they'll ever do that again unless they completely lose their minds. that is no longer a hostage worth taking. and now we'll see what they do on the sequester. i look with faith to the house progressive caucus that any deal that is reached does not include bad cuts. and i think there's still a little danger ahead. but the president has a much stronger hand than he's had since the beginning of his first term. >> congresswoman, can he use that stronger hand to push forward his agenda? americans came out all over this country. many stood in line for hours to see the country move forward. at the end of the day, will we see the agenda and the fairness and the ro greprogress that peo voted for coming to be? >> we are seeing that the issue of immigration, we're already seeing some gun support. we're seeing gun owners and nra members are with us. what i'm seeing now is an em bolding president and a caucus that's ready to roll up his sleeves and support

people from being enthusiastic or excited because of all the milestones with the debt ceiling and next up sequestration. >> i think that's exactly right. you see that for the gdp numbers, for example. fourth quarter gdp numbers down and in large part because of government spending. redust in the military spending because of the draw down in the war but government spending does help the economy. >> right. >> clear that's been the case looking, for example, at great britain. they're in the double-dip recession right now doing the same austerity measures republicans oppose and we have had 6.1 million new jobs added in this economy and i think that the problems are we have to invest in education, make sure people have opportunities and make sure that the government doesn't pull back right now. >> what we also know is there are republicans who still strongly say and assert that the stimulus did not work and they do not believe in exactly what you just said. >> economists, the majority of those interviewed by "wall street journal" believes the stimulus works. 3 million jobs because of t

#obamaquester. let's travel back in time to the great ceiling debt debacle of 2011. here is what president obama was demanding. >> at minimum we've got to raise the debt ceiling. so, that's the bare minimum that has to be achieved. >> here is what john boehner and the republicans in the house were demanding. >> the house cannot pass a bill that raises taxes on job creators. the house could only pass a debt limit bill that includes spending cuts larger than the hike in the debt limit as well as real restraints on future spending. >> and here is what john boehner said when the final bill was si signed into law with the dreaded sequester. >> when you look at this final agreement that we came to with the white house, i got 98% of what i wanted. i'm pretty happy. >> to his credit, that's how republicans lindsey graham remembers it as well. >> as john will say it with straight talk, we have our fingerprints as republicans on this proposal, on this sequestration idea. it was the president's idea, according to bob woodward's book, but we as the republican party gagreed to it. we got in this mess t

vote against raising the debt ceiling. if congress didn't act by august 2, the federal government would be unable to pay its bills. >> in 2010, when all these republicans were running for congress, ma of em awed tea partiers and the rest of them riding the tea party wave, the subject of the impending debt ceiling came up frequently and virtually all of them campaigned saying... pledging not to raise the debt ceiling. >> narrator: early on, republican freshmen attended orientation sessions. republican strategist frank luntz ran one of them. >> and i asked the question, how many of you are going to vote for the debt ceiling? and only three or four of them raised their hands. and i said, if you vote for the debt ceiling, the people who put you in office are going to knock you out. >> if you vote for the debt ceiling, you're voting for your own death certificate, political death certificate. >> narrator: for his part, the president decided to try something new: personal politics. he figured he could connect to the republican leader, john boehner. >> obama told his staff, john boehner

and then there is no follow-up. in light of what is going on in the nation, debt ceiling, in light of what is really going on here in the city and county of san francisco we need to involve the constituents, because the taxpayers that pay it, you may get the money from the state or the federal, it is the taxpayers who pay the taxes and we need to have some accountability and some transparency. i am not saying that this contractor is going to do his job i hope he does his job quarterly or twice a year or for the duration of this contract we get some reports. so that we can read and see what is happening. thank you very much. >> is there any other member in of the public that would like to make comments? seeing none public comment is close. (gavel) this is an action item. >> mr. chair? >> i know there is question about work between the mta and the transportation authority. can you talk about those issues and how they were resolved? >> both agencies have responsibility especially mta which has legislation for originating parking in public policy of the transportation authority addresses

important to make the distinction. the debt ceiling was scary as hell. we didn't know what would happen. if the united states stopped honoring its debts even for a day, who knew what would happen to the world financial system. this time if it goes moont, it's not the end of the world but it's big. this is a substantial spending cut in a depressed economy. this is exactly the wrong time to have fiscal austerity of any kind and the defense spending cuts are job destroyers, just like anything else. so not -- this is not what we want to see happen. if it all goes through, it's a pretty significant -- it's enough to push us is certainly into rising unemployment, possibly even back into recession. >> i want to listen to something that john boehner said about how we have handled deficits over the years. let's listen to this. >> at some point, washington has to deal with its spending problem. now, i've watched them kick this can down the road 22 years that i've been here. i've had enough of it. it's time to act. >> that is -- i'm trying to think of a word other than lie. kick the can down the road?

did not hit the debt ceiling. evidence is piling up. >> that's true. here is the thing that struck me about hagel hearings, it seemed at times that chuck hagel was surprised that these people were not happy with him. it's as if he did not read a newspaper in month. >> his response to the surge question. mccain is the biggest supporter of the surge, he led it. chuck hagel disagreed and mccain seems to be right. and hagel looked surprised by the question. in defense of molly's story and washington is getting better. that was not about dysfunction of washington, the two of them just do not like each other. that has nothing to do do with the broader things washington. the issue matrix is changing a bit. what we with saw in 2009 and 2010, when health care and economy were on the table, those are where the parties are fundamentally divided. that is going to be true. but the immigration, there's not the same divide with them. so it's not a polarizing issue with john kerry. part of the reason we are seeing less dysfunction -- on other issues they are not as divided. you may have 80 senators v

ransom that republicans in the house demanded of the white house in order to raise the debt ceiling in 2011. >> but they now say it was the president who is responsible. >> exactly. they voted for this. >> and paul ryan runs a marathon in less than one hour. >> i thought it was like 20 minutes. he's superman. this is what they wanted. >> of course. congressman, here is another apparent contradiction you might like to clear up for us. on the one hand, you have eric cantor out there giving a speech on making life work. he sounds like tony robbins or something. he's trying to sell yet another iteration of the republican party, but when you strip away the soft smile and the cadence, he'd happily slash every one of those programs that you just went through, wouldn't he? >> oh, absolutely. eric cantor despite all of the covering in the near is definitely proposing budgets that are hostile to middle and low income people. and particularly to vulnerable people, but not only that, you know, programs like s.n.a.p. actually give people money they can spend at the store that allows the store to hi

. >> well, the president just signed the bill that raises the debt ceiling. so in an age where these fiscal fights are, they're the same, they're ongoing, they can be insecendiary incendiary, we're always talking about a government shutdown of one kind or another, where does this leave us? >> it leaves us with a bunch of people who just fought the first fight, and the senate democrats are going to annapolis today and tomorrow to try to figure out, how do we move forward? how do we move forward with a budget? how do we move forward on funding the government? both of those things need to be done by april 15th. >> because they have taken some hits. and do they really want to give republicans anymore ammunition? >> that's why they've said, we're going to do a budget. and they were happy to sign the increase, meant they had a deadline of april 15th, where they don't get paid, and they have to get a budget done. >> always a good incentive there. >> so democrats understand that they need that, but this is going to be a partisan document by and large, saying, here's our spending priorities.

months? good-bye fiscal cliff and debt ceiling, hello to the efforts of delay or suspend the "s" word, the sequester, that automatic defense and spending cut mechanism that's set to take effect on march 1st. on tuesday president obama went public for the first time in a while with his opening offer on the budget battles ahead, and today he goes behind closed doors with senate democrats in their retreat in annapolis to strategize and preview his state of the union addressch the white house wanted to send two messages with the president's visit to briefing room yesterday. one, that the burden of shutting off the sequester is on congress. >> if congress can't act immediately on a bigger package, they should at least pass a smaller package of spending cuts and tax reforms that would delay the economically damaging effects of the sequester for a few more months. >> secondly, the white house wanted to signal how they would like to see the rest of these budget negotiations go in 2013, not with one-on-one deal-making but passed through the regular order in congress. the president said he expe

still steps they want to put in place to get more people back to work. >> fiscal cliff, the debt ceiling, immigration he said there's room but, look, republicans need to get religion on this. do you expect a similar tone in the state of the union? >> he has a limited amount of time. they feel they have a so-called m mandate from their victory not losing the senate. i think it's kind of full speed ahead for the president right now. he's going to go as bold as he can go, limited amount of time. i think i disagree a little bit on the economy. i think it's a course correction for him. i feel he's maybe second-guessing, not talking about the economy during his inaugural speech, now maybe i should have talked about that. >> which is fascinating because if you look at the first term in a lot of ways, you know, he started off -- you had a republican party that was largely kind of in the doldrums and he started off with economic stimulus and health care which united the party in some way. is he -- is he smart to refocus on the economy, jim? >> yes. >> and probably the more important quest

boehner did it on -- he did it on the debt ceiling. he did it on sandy aid. could it be -- could his days be numbered? >> after the fiscal cliff. he promised he wouldn't do it again. he told his members. he has said that he won't do it again, but there's going to be pressure on a ton of issues, and, you know, for him it's going to be a personal decision. in some ways that's how it's framed in washington whether it comes down to whether or not there will be a continuation of the hastert rule. it's about speakership. >> in terms of let's say it's a rosier picture than we thought it would be on gun safety laws. i guess how much of that rosyness carries through on immigration. it could really go either way, i think. there is still a debate over the path to sit sflenship. >> as well as on immigration frankly. i'm not down there counting votes, and howard might be -- you put a number 30, 40 house republicans that would be for some sort of gun control. on immigration it almost seems like the numbers are closer to 100. especially in some of the conservative districts. that's really what's changed

negotiate around the debt ceiling. they will not collect a ransom in exchange for not crashing the american economy. ordinary folks, they do their jobs. the notion that our elected leadership can't do the same thing is mind boggling to him. it needs to stop. >> this is not a complicated concept. >> he's standing strong. and that's making it even harder for an already divided gop to regroup. take exhibit a. earlier today, tagg romney's name was floated as a possible gop senate candidate in massachusetts. he's since bowed out. guess he saw what happened to the last romney. . >>> and then there's this. gop donors are turning to karl rove to help weed out far right candidates in upcoming races. really? isn't he the guy who blew $300 million in the last election? whose super pac had a 1% success rate? yeah, that guy. and, boy is the tea party upset. freedom works slammed rove's group saying the empire is striking back. calling him orwellian. it's full-on gop warfare. it's gop civil war. joining me now is michael steele and dana millbank. thank you both for coming on the show tonight. >> good to

republicans m house and senate part way on a key debt ceiling bill. will the intraparty scism end in heartburn or heart break? for over 75 years people have saved money with...ohhh... ...with geico... ohhh...sorry! director's voice: here we go. from the top. and action for over 75 years people have saved money with gecko so.... director's voice: cut it! ...what...what did i say? gecko? i said gecko? aw... for over 75 year...(laughs. but still trying to keep it contained) director's voice: keep it together. i'm good. i'm good. for over 75...(uncontrollable lahtuger). what are you doing there? stop making me laugh. vo: geico. saving people money for over seventy-five years. gecko: don't look at me. don't look at me. >>> the republican party is engaged in a fierce game of tug-of-war with itself. last week after speaker john boehner pleaded with his party to vote for a bill to extend the debt limit for three months, 33 members broke rank. the measure would have failed without democratic support. yesterday the senate took up that same bill and even though it was hand-crafted by john boehn

. because they're still bringing the same optical, whether we talk about sequestration or the debt ceiling. they are still doing that. the president was successful when he went to the american people, not just rallying democrats, but rallying the people who say let's get on with it, let's try to balance the budget, and the difficulty we have here now is the republicans are just talking about cutting programs, and they have targeted social security, medicaid, and medicare, and the president is saying we have to reform these systems, but we still need more revenue, and this is a worry that they just refuse to discuss. i don't see how you can ignore revenues if you talk about a budget. >> sir, if you will, we look at the time clock ahead of us, we have the state of the union coming up next week, but it's the sequester at the end of the month, the beginning of march, that everybody is worried about and what those cuts will mean in terms of defense spending and what it will mean to low-income families in this country. just a short time ago leon panetta was asked directly about the seque

potential government shutdowns and debt ceilings. we'll talk about that stuff. all from the perspective of how are we making sure that somebody who works hard in this country, a cop or a teacher, or a construction worker or a receptionist, that they can make it if they work hard. and that their kids can make it. and dream even bigger dreams than they have achieved. and obviously, a lot of what we'll be working on michellely over the next few weeks is going to be on how do we deal with the sequester issue, and i just want to make this quick point. i had a press conference this week in which i reiterated i am prepared, eager, and anxious to do a big deal, a big package that ends this governance by crisis for every two weeks or every two months or every six months. we are threatening this hard won recovery where finally housing is starting to pick up and commercial real estate is starting to do better and the unemployment numbers are still too high, but we're seeing some job growth and businesses are investing and manufacturing is doing well and we continue to have these self-inflicted crisis

a debt ceiling extension months down the road, and they're really thinking about, you know, a fight over the sequester or not, using this sort of yearlong view and thinking about the bats down the road and not using all their leverage right now. >> we got some projections yesterday on the deficit, projected to be $845 billion, that would be under a trillion for the first time since 2008. does this play into all of this discussion at all? >> i mean, it's fairly consistent with the president's proposal, which is to say he doesn't want to cut spending too much right now. he wants to do some long-term spending reduction on the de deficit. republicans say don't trust him. i don't think republicans will be swayed by the cbo report. they have what they see as a mandate from voters, cut spending. >> let me bring in congressman john yarmuth. what would you like to see? >> i think some of the spending you mentioned could be very youthful. some of the farm subsidies that are unjustified. i'd like to consider a securities transaction pack, the so called wall street packs that can raise tens of

may have depress the consumer confidence. so has the behavior of washington. we've had the debt ceiling suspended, another budget baths to go through. so investors, businessmen and even individual investors and consumers are still somewhat haunted by what's happening in the nation's capital. >> and if we could put the markets gain back up, we had seen it go above 14,000 earlier this morning. it's -- >> right there. >> right there, right now. okay. so this hasn't happened since '07. >> early october, the all-time high, 14,164. standard & poor's, 1465. we're within striking distance of both. and that's a good sign. the stock market is performing well. the bond market is performing as expected, if the economy is recovering and so are other markets. and the indicators i look atom as, actually quite positive. none showing signs of strain, the future economic prospects better than the past. so for now markets are tell us things are all right. that may change sometime in the future but looks good at this at the moment. >> and ron made fun of my ravens -- >> absolutely. >> see this? rav

: the senate approved a house plan to approve the debt ceiling and hold off on congressional pay if they don't get a budget deal for the next ten years. you say this is more of a risk and even the fiscal cliff was. >> oh, yes. the debt ceiling is a potentially large fiscal contraction like the fiscal cliff was. even bigger, actually, if you do the math. debt ceiling is you cannot borrow, so you have to balance the budget tomorrow. in addition to that, there was the kind of not very real threat that we might default on the national debt or postpone payments, so you're playing with a combination of a big fiscal contraction and the possibility of triggering a financial crisis also. lori: i want to ask you about your book. after the music stopped, but about the financial crisis, to a dozen 7-8. looking back, said always 2020, what were the best actions taken by the federal government and the worst? >> at think there were three. in net you a tie for first? >> you know how tv works. >> one was tart. very unpopular, but effective and turn a profit for the taxpayer. second was the stimulus

. your push right now is getting it back home. >> with the fiscal cliff and debt ceiling and trying to get bipartisan, but over here is something called poverty, 50 million americans and racial disparity and cities collapsing and the like. i'm going to make the case we should build america an urban infrastructural bank for the purpose of long-term loans. we do it in europe and japan. and no other country charges people to repatriate their money once they pay taxes in that country. but we do. but if we, in fact, took a portion of that money, part for research and development and part of it for an institutional bank, you could do what banks are not doing, and that's invest in these downtrodden areas of our country. >> gillian, we've been talking about it for years, trillions of dollars sitting on the sidelines not coming back to america. how do we get it back here? >> almost $2 trillion. you've got average household earnings down over the past four years, poverty is up. we need this money working in our economy. how do we get it here? >> absolutely. i think the reverend's idea is very in

cuts. they really don't take into consideration the fact that we had the debt ceiling deal which was all cuts. that means they'll probably hold out for something that has cuts only. democrats won't take it, and we'll go over that proverbial cliff at the end of february. what's going to end up happening, i think, is that there's going to be incredible quick economic impact because of it. and that might persuade congress to go back and look at it and try to put in some sort of replacement. keep in mind, we just had a report a week ago that said that the economy shrunk in the fourth quarter in preparation for the sequester. not because the sequester hit, but in preparation for the sequester. so if that's just in preparation, i can't imagine what's going to happen when we actually do go through all the planning of going through sequestration. >> this is the worst on both levels. in the short run, it tends to be recessionary, if you will, it slows down an already slow economy. also by not discriminating between investment and spending, it really is the worst possible way to run this busin